Someone needs to write a book. Because I'm stumped.
Fertile people need to understand infertile people. Infertile people, however, can say whatever they like. Infertile people can complain all they like, including complaining about people who are complaining. Parents, pregnant women, and fertiles in general SHALL NOT COMPLAIN, nor shall they explain why someone may need to complain, or stand up for themselves.
I'm a parent. I have a Facebo.ok account. I complain occasionally about parenting. I've complained on FB. Am I a bad person? Am I a bad parent? Am I somehow smacking my infertile self in the face?
The other day a very nice blogger that I know, Emily, posted a rant about a FB friend who through out a totally normal parenting complaint status. It seems normal to me because I am a parent, and the status seemed to be a normal one. Something along the lines of 'I'm trying to watch my favorite show, daughter is driving me crazy....blah blah blah. This is why FB truly sucks if you are a parent with infertile friends, because you really CAN'T POST ANYTHING.
Here's the thing, infertiles and fertiles alike. WE ARE KNOWN FOR WHAT WE DO, NOT WHAT WE FEEL AND THINK. I can post all day that my daughter is driving me crazy. She does. Today, just as an example, she wanted me to read her the most...horrible...book....ever. It is a Barbie book, she waaaaanted it because it was pink, and my husband bought it for her because she's daddy's little girl. A long time ago, I swore to myself that no matter what I was doing, if one of my children brought a book over I would stop and read it. And so far, I have kept this vow. I have read books to them while taking a crap on the toilet, I have taken food off the stove, I have let my food grow cold/warm/congealed and nasty. But this book....I hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it. But I read it. Twice. But gods forbid that I put on FB as my status "My daughter is driving me crazy. If she brings that book to me one more time I'M GOING TO BURN IT I SWEAR TO GOD!!!.
We infertiles go through a lot of trouble getting fertiles to understand the difference between how hurt we may FEEL and how we actually ACT. We ACT happy for our friends when they are pregnant even as we FEEL sad, jealous, and crushed. We expect that people will try and understand the difference. But if you are a parent, forget it, DON'T COMPLAIN. It doesn't matter if I am with my daughter all day, being the best parent I can be, enjoying her company (nearly) every minute we are together. It doesn't matter that just being with her sometimes makes me cry because she just turned 3 and soon, too soon, she'll be off to school. It doesn't matter that seeing her throw herself into her daddy's arms when he comes home lights up the world with both of their happiness. If I complain on FB, all anyone will see, is that.
One thing is interesting, though. If I complain on FB, all my parenting friends get it. Does it hurt when you're told that you don't get something because you're not a parent? HELL YES. Is it true? Sadly, YES.
I'm tired of being told I can't complain. I get angry when I hear from infertiles that my fertile friends who are parents take parenting for granted. Or that my mother did, or my grandmother. I'm tired of hearing about how infertile people are hurting all the time, but I can't say, not once, how parenting can hurt just as much without being told that I'm 'Over the line'.
Over 65% of couples that come into an RE clinic seeing assisted reproduction will end up having a baby. That's a lot. Most parents out there aren't infertile, but most of us who are infertile who seek medical help will become parents. So please infertiles, cut your future parent selves some slack
Chickenpig, here's my point of view. Parents have every right to complain. Parenting is hard work and I get that. There are things about being a parent that aren't glamorous and that drive you crazy. I get that.
ReplyDeleteMy issue with this woman and her status where two fold. 1. She complained about not being able to watch a TELEVISION SHOW in complete peace. I'm sorry, but that is completely and utter bullshit. DVR it. Watch it online sometime when you get the chance. But to bitch because you can't see it without distraction while it is playing? Uh uh.
Secondly, what really pissed me off, was her comment back to me. How DARE any parent tell me I'm living a selfish life and that my life is "easy" because I don't have a child. And please don't tell me that being a mom is "the hardest thing that anyone can do." This woman conceived naturally and quickly, so she has no idea what it is to wonder if you will ever look in to the eyes of your own child.
If her post had been something like "Was up all night with daughter. I'm exhausted. I just want some sleep" I wouldn't have paid it a second glance. Parents can and should be able to vent about how difficult their role is. But to complain about something as trivial as missing a television show is what set me off.
And lastly, it wasn't the fact that I disagreed with your comment that made me think it was out of line. It was the incredibly negative undertone that it had. ADSchill commented after you, disagreed with I said, and I can understand her point of view. She didn't come after me swinging like I felt you did.
And to add, yes, I know that we all should be more kind and tolerant of what other people have to say. Which is why it doesn't sit well with me that she compared her life to mine. She didn't struggle for two years to get pregnant only to get pregnant and have to end the pregnancy with two shots of chemo in the butt. She didn't suffer through two rounds of IVF only to be told that she has some pretty bad eggs and that a positive outcome isn't very promising. My life hasn't been easy, and she shouldn't have called it that. Just because she has a daughter does not automatically make her life harder than mine, nor does me not having a child automatically give me an easier, "selfish" life.
ReplyDeleteI am a parent who has survived the trenches of infertility also. Do I think parenting is hard? Yup. Do I think infertility is hard? yup. The point that I think was missed was Emily's friend's complete lack of sensitivity. Her friend knew what they have been going through, yet she also knew that what she said would be hurtful. Every time I even ponder the idea of complaining about parenting I remember the pain of infertility. It breaks my heart to think of the pain I may induce on another by complaining.
ReplyDeleteWhat you said was hurtful and disrespectful to Emily. You know she needs deep sensitivity and support at this very vulnerable stage in her life. Please be careful with the words and undertone you use when commenting on other's blogs...it's common courtesy.
I'm going to have to stick up for chickenpig here, and I say the following with a great deal of respect for everyone involved.
ReplyDeleteEmily, what I think was unforgivable with your friend is that she said that you were lucky not to have kids (essentially) and her life was totally hard while yours was all roses. THAT I understand getting totally pissed about. That was so wrong. But I don't think that's what chickenpig was defending.
How I feel is that IF is HARD (and full of despair...that's what I think sets it apart and should be recognized/acknowledged). But I'm finding pregnancy is hard too, in a very different way, but still hard. And I'm not a parent yet, but I'm sure there are hard things about that, too. And I don't feel like we should have to pretend like it's not hard at times (pregnancy and parenthood) because 1) there is comfort and support in putting it out there that things are hard, and I need that comfort and support, and 2) if everyone just talks about the great parts of pregnancy and parenthood, and you have one second where it's not all perfect, then you think something's wrong with you.
Life is hard, bottom line. Emily, if bad things haven't happened to your friend yet, they will. We all have our crosses to bear, IF being a very, very, very hard one, especially in this fertile society that is so child focused. But we should all be able to share the good and the bad with each other...in my opinion that's living honestly, and what life is about. Maybe we shouldn't be sharing the hard stuff on FB...maybe it should be face-to-face conversations with people we know will understand, I don't know. But just putting on a happy face and pretending life is perfect from the moment we get pregnant on...I don't know...that just doesn't seem to me like the right thing to do or to expect of others.
chickenpig, even though I didn't read the original blog post which prompted yours, and even though I'm not a parent yet, I can relate to this post.
ReplyDeleteI am blessedly, fortunately pregnant with twins via DE after over three years of TTC. Emotionally, I could not be more grateful and happy. This is what I worked so hard and spent so much money, time, and effort to achieve. Occasionally I am anxious about whether my pregnancy will end with two living, healthy babies, but by and large, my mood is good.
It doesn't change the fact, though, that I have physically felt like absolute crap every.single.day since 6 weeks (I'm 16 weeks now). And especially carrying twins, I know that there is a lot more physical strain and suffering ahead.
I know that there are infertile women who would give up a limb or major organ to be where I am, but that doesn't change the fact that it is really difficult and sucky to feel like crap all the time.
Is this as hard as being infertile? It's so hard to compare the two; they are like apples and oranges. They're both hard in very different ways.
I don't think the occasional complaint about the demands or annoyances of parenthood--which are undeniable--means someone is ungrateful. I can see who an infertile friend might consider this kvetching insensitive in certain moods, though.
Chickenpig, you make some good points, as does emily, as does Kristen. This stuff is so hard. It really is.
ReplyDeleteI can tell you that from my point of view, I don't think there's anything wrong with a parent complaining. I second Kristen, the hurtful part is saying things like "you're lucky you don't have kids". That is terrible. And I know that you would never even fathom saying that to anyone, because you know how much a statement like that would hurt.
Seeing parenting updates on FB hurts me, but doesn't make me angry at the updater. It makes me sad for myself.
On the other hand, if said updater would tell me to "just relax" or say something like "at least you get to sleep", I would throttle them and promptly delete them from my friends list.
In short - it's a delicate balance, but one that I think is fairly simple to follow in the long run.
Does that make any sense?
This is a really interesting dialog. Thank you for posting.
ReplyDeleteI haven't yet joined the ranks of IF who've become parents (of living children). Before I got pregnant, I flinched every time a FB friend (or in-person friend) whined about their kids' antics. It hurt me, because I so wished I had war stories, too.
Once I became pregnant, I found myself flinching any time I whined about my pregnancy symptoms. It occurred to me that as much as I had longed to be pregnant for so many years, I never considered that it might not all be roses. I was thrilled to finally be pregnant, but OMG, I was *miserable*...throwing up violently (every other day at first, one or two meals per day near the end), peeing my freaking pants every time, waddling and very, very sore all over. It was hard to reconcile the joyous happiness of carrying twins with the misery. I had a dear friend tell me that I didn't have to feel guilty for having a hard time being pregnant when it's what I wanted all along, and that made me feel better. Unfortunately, my pregnancy came to a tragic end at 14 weeks 2 days gestation. I was physically relieved and emotionally broken.
We're about to start trying again. I'm prepared to slog back through all the injections and assorted accompanying side effects in hopes of getting pregnant again...knowing I might have to face miserable pregnancy symptoms again...all so that I can go on to whine about my children driving me crazy in the years to come. I will probably flinch as I do that, too, wondering whether I'm ungrateful and possibly unknowingly causing pain to someone else battling IF.
Oh, complain all you need to. Parenting is hard. Most wonderful, worthwhile things are hard, and one is completely justified in complaining and asking for sympathy and understanding on a rough day/night/week/month.
ReplyDeleteBut seriously? Parenting HURTS AS MUCH as infertility? Do you really, really think that, or are you just angry and venting? Because as much as I totally reserve the right to bitch my head right OFF if I ever have a child, and said much loved much wanted child will of course drive me nuts and melt my heart every day, I can in no way in hell imagine parenting a healthy, normal child to be ANYWHERE NEAR as painful, difficult, distressing and soul-destroying as seven miscarriages in a row and no living children to show for it.
(I can't comment on the relative feelings of people parenting children with severe health problems or disabilites, of course. It would be arrogant and presumptious of me to even think of making comparisons either way - I can only imagine it's the greatest source of love and anguish ever).
Nuts in May,
ReplyDeleteThere are parts that hurt as much as infertility, definitely. I didn't say ALL of parenting, I said it CAN hurt as much as infertility. I also said INFERTILITY not REPEAT PREGNANCY LOSS. I don't think anything could hurt as much as RPL, I really don't.
Also, as I briefly mentioned in my comment on Emily's blog, I had really bad PPD after having my twins. If you really want to know what a big suck is, finally have babies that you have longed for so desperately and be so totally out of your mind that you can't finally appreciate it. Yeah, it hurts hardcore. NOT as bad as RPL, although I can only imagine how bad that is.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I totally get how Emily would be pissed off by that woman. I was just trying to explain how a parent might be completely non plussed by her reaction. Venting quickly on FB about your kids, whatever they may be doing, whether it's having had a bad day at school or having a bad battle with teething is a normal part of most posts that I get on FB from my parenting friends. No, I have never seen one quite like "Can't watch my favorite TV program" , but it wouldn't put me over the edge either. I was just trying to put in my point of view as a parent.
ReplyDeleteReading this debate I can't help thinking that we all need to remember that there are many different kinds of pain in life and there is no way to measure what is more or less painful or how hard it is to be in somebody else's shoes.
ReplyDeleteI'm dealing with infertility and it is painful and difficult. But I will never forget the moment when I saw my younger sister with her one month old baby girl in her arms. Although I knew my sister was not doing well after the birth, I could have never imagined the pain and sadness in her eyes, the total and utter exhaustion written all over her face and the impending depression reflected in her endless floods of tears. She suffers with chronic physical pains which I can never imagine what it is like to live with every day of your life and I can never imagine her struggle to try to be the kind of mother she wants to be despite her physical pains and limitations. Likewise she can also not imagine the pain and grief I feel as a consequence of our infertility. But we both know that what the other is going through deserves our deepest empathy and compassion. Even though it can be difficult to give it when you are caught up in your own pain.
We would all do well to be more empathic towards each other's pain. When we try to rate pain - our own or someone else's - all we do is end up arguing, angry, and with hurt feelings. We also end up feeling more alone and isolated. Pain is pain, ladies.
ReplyDelete